Let’s watch all of the VMI defenders try and deflect blame off of the college’s regimen after this.
VMI student dies after training event
Oh yeah, more reason to go to a college that yells and berates you for the first six months just because “everybody else has gone through the same process”. Gee, in other colleges that’s called hazing. Now they’ve got a dead student after a ten(?!?!?!?)-mile march. Lovely.
I don’t know who the hell you think you are, but you clearly have never been to VMI. Nobody berates us here, there are 3 student organizations who’s soul purpose is to prevent sexual, physical or racial discrimination or abuse. We are definatley treated and respected by our upperclassmen better than anyone in ANY other college for all that we sacrifice to be here.
Brother Rat Evans died because personal medical complications, not because of the RDC or some upperclassman telling him to do push ups. And yes, it was a ten mile march, 9 of which was flat ground. It’s people like you that have no ties to the Institute that still think they should get to pitch their opinion that degrades the Ratline and ruins it for those of us that actually live here. We are treated with the same professionalism that Marine, Navy and Army Recruits earn from the minute we sign the Matriculation Book. NOBODY here, not even the Rat who hates this place the most will tell you that anything that goes on here is hazing, but nobody here would at the same time expect ctitics from regular colleges to understand what it’s like to become a man or woman of honor, integrity and dicipline.
Tough crap, I don’t drink the college koolaid that you do. “Just because we’ve always done it” is no reason to keep doing it.
I don’t need anybody to yell and scream at me in order to make me a better man. Oh yeah, one other thing… I’m not going to let somebody else humiliate me in the name of “we’re doing this to make you better”.
Hazing is hazing, even if it’s supported by 170 years of tradition. VMI isn’t the military. It’s a college.
The guy that you started school with a few months ago is now dead. His name was John, by the way.
Southside Central, it’s sadly beyond you to understand the bond formed at VMI. Ironically while you are conveniently focusing on the untimely death of an honorable young man (4th Classman) and convicting not only the system but also all those in upper classes, you aren’t aware of the 3rd Classman, not subject to any of the rigors of a Rat, who suffered a paralyzing stroke after PT Monday. Regarding VMI being a college and not the military, try telling that to someone like me who successfully survived 200 missions over Vietnam in an F-4 Phantom largely due to lessons learned at VMI. You would be best advised to control your oversized mouth when you know nothing of a subject! Go away, little man! Class of ’63
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Your condescending attitude makes my point for me. It’s people like you that can’t see that the tragic death of a college freshman is a tragic death. You try to sell the “you’ve been to VMI” attitude to make it seem that you have earned respect for going through the program. You’ve also introduced the fact that the “program” has claimed another victim in the past week. You’re right, I didn’t know about that and the sophomore that you’ve mentioned doesn’t help your case one bit.
And regarding your stellar military career, you do have my respect for that as do all military veterans though it doesn’t make you any more impressive to me.
About the “control your oversized mouth” remark and the “Go away, little man!”… Kindly blow that out of your ass.
The death of a student at any college, regardless of the reason, is an absolute tragedy. Before throwing stones and casting blame it would be appropriate to wait and understand all details. It is also important to recognize that a student making the decision to attend VMI understands, and makes the choice freely, to accept college life different than other non-military schools. It takes a special individual, with more discipline, with more drive, with courage and strength to select and succeed at VMI. VMI develops men and women of honor and integrity. Going to VMI is an honor and a privelege for those that chose a tougher way of life. VMI is a family and all members of that family mourn the loss of their friend and classmate, John. Our thoughts and prayers are with John’s family, friends and classmates.
Hey Southsidecentral. Shut the ____ up or step out from behind the protective cover of email. Young people choose to come to VMI with their eyes wide open. Over half will go on to serve honorable in our armed forces. They know what is exepcted of them and what will be demanded of them. Sometimes there are undiagnosed conditions that lead to instances like this. If you want to run your mouth about something you obviously are ignorant, come all the way out and play with the big boys, you punk piecc of ____.
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Nice threats. You really help your case with such comments. Remember, kiddies, if somebody says something that you don’t like, curse & threaten them.
Just because they “know what is expected” doesn’t mean that it’s the right thing for them to do.
Boy you hit a hornets nest this time Bruce.
Dear god what *** this country puts out. 10 *** miles?! Really? That is nothing. A ten mile walk….yeah that’s hazing you weak ass ***. God forbid we ever have to rely on that “person’s” ass. You people don’t live in the real world. Have any of you gone 10 miles…. It ain’t that far.
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Yeah. I know what you mean. Guess you’re glad they won’t have to rely on the kid that died, eh?
I visited VMI today. I spoke with a rat over lunch who was VERY near John dury the 10 miler. He said it was rough. John fell out (passed out) at mile 9 and was forced to make it back to the barracks. His brother rats pulled him and carried him along (As the RDC kept yelling and pushing him). The EMT’s present along the walk watched and did nothing (you would think they would check a pulse or something when a kid passes out). He made it back to his room where he passed out again and went into cardiac arrest. Paramedics tried to revive him where he entered his VMI experience not 12 weeks ago at the main front arch of the barracks.
Today was a somber site in Lexington, as the flag flew at half mast. I feel for John, his family (Father is a VMI Alum), and his fellow Rats… To die on the battle ground is one thing, but dieing at age 19 doing some crazy 10 miler in Lexington, Virginia is another.
I’m not a VMI Alum, but I have family members that are, and tons of friends that have graduated from VMI. I can assure you that none of them would say John should have died for his passage to become a VMI Keydet.
Bruce,
I think you have waited for the coroners report before you condemned the Institute. Perhaps that might shed some light on it…
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Dave, I haven’t condemned the Institute. I’ve condemned the practices that has led to a freshman student’s death.
My Rat is in John’s company and knew him well. I know that emotions run high at a time like this, and no matter what anyone says John’s death is tragic–but it was also an accident–an accident of nature, or an accident of the system–or both. NOBODY, I repeat, NOBODY, wanted John to die. I know you all need to express your feelings; I just wish you could do so kindly and politely. Vulgar language, insults, criticism, rumors, and judgments don’t help anyone in a time like this. Pointing fingers and trying to find blame is wrong. Yes maybe things could have been done differently and maybe John would still be alive. But we can’t go backwards, only forward. What needs to be done is to try and understand the cause of his death and to work out ways to prevent such a thing from happening again. The coroner and the school are both doing these investigations now. So, please cut out the blame throwing and the insults and pray not only for John’s family, and all the VMI students who are deeply affected by John’s death–especially his friends and Brother Rats, but also pray for those that may have missed the signs of his distress as they will have to live with the regrets of not having noticed the problem or not having done things differently. God Bless you all. Please help one another bring about peace and harmony instead of hatred and misunderstanding. John’s family needs your support now.
Guys, dont comment on this moron’s post. He clearly has no clue what he’s talking about and we all know that, so just let it be. His words have no effect on our school, let him hold his own views.
All prayers out to John Evans’ family, friends, and especially his brother rats.
I have a dear friend who is a rat this year and she is proud to be there. You can tell that she loves the school dearly and does not resent the treatment that the new cadets coming in receive. It it a personal decision to attend VMI and everyone who makes that decision is very aware of the history. I personally want those who are defending our country to be able to handle themselves in even the worst of conditions. War is not a playground!
To all of you here on this posting, I want to first say that I hope that you look a little deeper into this tragedy than the poster. Coroners are currently looking into the official cause of death of John Evans while our school is investigating the entire situation from an internal standpoint. Please do not post here on sheer speculation and what you heard from a friend. Please do not look at what was written by the poster and take it as face value because he, like most people posting on this forum, was not here to witness the entirety of this past Saturday.
I want to begin my posting here by saying that I am a member of the class of 2011 at VMI. I am a firm believer in this adversarial system that we employ here. I came here at an older age than most of my Brother Rats and feel no differently than any of them: this school has changed me for the better. Like everyone else here, I chose VMI because it is different. VMI is not my first college, so I feel confident in saying that I can speak on some level of authority on its fine qualities as a program as opposed to those you may find in other schools.
John Evans, I am told by his Brother Rats (here on abbreviated as BRs) held the same beliefs as I do about OUR institute.
The EMTs on duty were MY BRs and I can assure you, they did everything they could to help John Evans and to resuscitate him.
John Evans was 19 years old and well respected and loved by his BRs and his First Class mentors. We here at the Institute mourn his loss and pray for his family in this time of tragedy.
On Saturday night, a vigil was held in the courtyard of barracks where members of EVERY class were present. The Regimental Commander gave a very appropriate speech about the fragile nature of life and the abruptness and awful power of death. He then said what I think touches every Cadet here to the core: VMI is a family, every member of the corps. We all play a role in the corps and we all provide support for one another. We all grieve deeply for the loss of one of our number regardless of whether he was in our class or not.
To those of you who are looking to defame our character and slam VMI, I would caution you to investigate the situation fully. People taking rumor and here-say at face value often find themselves embarrassed when the facts are posted. They will be in due time I can assure you.
To the alumni posting here, I also, very respectfully, caution you to hold back your criticism of the folks mentioned above. They are only exercising their First Amendment rights; those rights that many of our BRs have gone to war to protect. These people do not understand what it is to be a VMI cadet, this is true, but as we say here, “we are always on parade.” What the public perceives is, in their mind, the truth. No amount of bashing them will change their minds and it only serves to make VMI look worse to them.
To those of you still reading, I will thank you for keeping an open mind about this situation as it is a tough time at the Institute right now. Rats are still in the molding phase known as the ratline and we are carrying on business as usual with only one change, heavy hearts.
Pray for John Evans’ family as we are. May John have found peace. He will never be forgotten.
2011 is correct, we are always told to be on parade 24/7 and as a Rat/Cadet I’m supposed to respect your opinions and defend your right to give it, regardless of what I think of it or how factually incorrect it is. However you must understand that these marches are not conducted in a threatening enviornment, and upon hearing the news of BR Evans passing away, the RDC, who are in charge of said march were as supportive as possible. They even said if someone needed some guidance or support that their doors are open. Right now, VMI is probably the safest and friendliest places to be, despite any videos you pull up off of YouTube. And please, have some respect for the departed, Southside Central, don’t talk about him like you just were, he was a person not a random name to be thrown around like that.
Mr. Central,
VMI has taught me many things in my short stint here, and one of those things is to be respectful and professional in all endeavors. In that spirit, I understand how this may look to someone who is on the outside looking in. I do. However, I must tell you that the observation and interpretation of my Institute you have published is wrong. EVERYONE coming to this school knows what they are getting into, its no secret. It’s called Virginia MILITARY Institute for God’s sake. But before you take the stereotypical “antagonistic stance”, listen to my point of view, just as I have respectfully listened to yours.
I am a Rat. It’s true. I am the bottom of the barrel in more ways than one. So this testimony isn’t to silence the Rats or shut out the Ratline from the public. You need to know that the Ratline is the hardest, longest, most intense training session I’ve ever been through, and I wouldn’t give a minute of it back. The fact that it IS hard makes you appreciate it, come together as a class, and learn how to use motivation and unity to achieve things you never thought you could. Yeah, it sounds cliche, but I’m a pessimist as well. I came here thinking I could tear it up on my own. I was wrong. Very. All of us went through those marches that John Evans went on, and we finished them as a Mass, which we wouldn’t have been able to do without the motivation from each other.
Now, the reason we don’t write these traditions off as “outdated” and adopt the modern vision of college (drinking, fraternities, higher rates of annual rape than VMI has seen in its entire history) is because of the success our system has. It works. It’s stood the test of time, as we can see from its outstanding graduates, and its insanely loyal alumni. Sure, it’s old fashioned here. I’m not even big on Virginian history, given I’d never been east of the Mississippi until Matriculation Day. But this place makes you into a successful individual that is imbued with honor (no, you don’t fully understand the meaning of it until you come here), confidence in self, and poise.
As for Brother Rat Evans, the last thing he will ever do was push through, and finish that march with his Brother Rats. We were behind him, supporting him, motivating him, and he finished amongst the cheers and victorious spirit of his new family. This was the first march he ever completed. The last thing he did, was FINALLY push through, and find victory in that VMI spirit. DO NOT read me wrong sir, it is horrific what has happened, and the Institute is grieving over the loss of a friend, a brother, and a leader. Had we known the march would be fatal to him, we would have taken the proper precautions to preserve one of our own. Obviously. There were more Cadet Equity Staff and EMT’s on the march than there were Disciplinary Committee Members. We were, I was taken care of.
We haven’t been brainwashed by the military, we have been taught to look at the big picture. And your view sir, is NOT of the big picture.
John wanted to come here, stayed here, thrived here, and gave his life here. DO NOT cheapen that.
Rat Richardson
Mr. Central,
My name is not Dave, it is Richardson. RAT Nickolas Richardson, a name I am proud to bear. I fully understand your interpretation of the Ratline. When I first looked upon the eyes of the frightened Rat, I thought it was rough too. But the only individuals that can make full, accurate statements about the Ratline and all of its activities are those who have gone through it. It’s like going on a rollercoaster. How scary can you POSSIBLY say it is if you’ve never been on it? This is the reason we have gone into space, instead of just looking at it. The reason we have seen political experiments try and fail so many times. One will never know an experience truly until one has lived through it.
I can say with all certainty that up until Brother Rat Evans’ final breath, he would have supported the Ratline and its traditions. Unfortunately, his body didn’t agree with his spirit. So many precautions have been taken here to monitor our traditions and practices that some hard-liners think the school should be returned to the way it was in days long passed; with physical contact allowed, females excluded, Ratlines that lasted the entire first year, etc.
I have heard many say that it will be hard to keep the Virginia Military Institute alive in the years to come, given the negative feedback from the outside and the staunch adherence to tradition, sacrifice, and honor. The number of cadets that have died at VMI are miniscule compared to those of other schools.
I understand you don’t approve of our practices, but what about the privilege of cars only being given to seniors? Do you know how many college freshmen, sophomores, and juniors die around the country every year from driving drunk? How many of those are cadets here?
How about the institution of a sex-free barracks. No sexual advances are allowed in barracks: no exceptions, no excuses, no tolerance. How many rape and sexual assault cases are found at other colleges every year?
Other schools send students to hospitals every year for alcohol poisoning, hazing missions gone awry, and violent brawls. Each Rat here has a personal senior mentor to guide, teach, and mold him into a cadet, all while being monitored by faculty and Equal Treatment Committees. Not to mention a 24-hour guard team that posts sentinels and guards all around barracks to protect quiet during study hours and keeps the peace within barracks.
I have to say sir, as a future cadet here, a current Rat, and a fully willing and ready member of the “process”, I have the ability to cast a fair and accurate judgement of the practices here. I will tell you, in all honesty, with the Corps of Cadets at my side, that I have never felt safer than I do at the Virginia Military Institute.
Richardson, he was talking to the guy posting as “Dave Cline.” Thank you for your post and I value your opinion but understand how blogs work. South central is replying to an earlier post than yours.
You may have also wished to NOT give out your name as, should someone within the I learn of this and take offense, or if the GC or EC think this defames the institute, you can be held accountable. You are always on parade.
I’m a Norwich grad (’88) and a 26-year Marine and counting. My daughter just started her Rat year. I have one thing to say to those who have not had the privelege to attend fine institutions such as these (Norwich, VMI, Citadel, etc). “Those who say, do not know. Those who know, do not say” I’d put up any individual graduated from any of the aforementioned institutions ANY DAY against those who have NOT attended, to include the service academies.
There’s NEVER an excuse for EMT medical neglect………they should have recognized the signs and symptoms.
As a parent of a service academy student and the daughter of a Marine Colonel with family in Dept of Education what troubles me about the above posts is the defensive, arrogant tone taken by those defending the schools. It is unseemly to come across as a conceited graduate. Unfortunately your unsympathetic tone comes across as ignorant. I expect more of a graduate of these academies. I expect you to hear out a complaint with compassion, fairness and leadership. If hazing has occurred at your academy (and legal cases suggest it has at all of them) then stand up as among those who have understood and rectified it. Those who came before you expect more leadership of you. Vigilance for bettering the place you have been is your charge as a graduate. I expect more.