In the recent mailer he sent out, Jim McKelvey tries to say that Robert Hurt is sorta like Tom Perriello. Riiiiiiiiight.
I rarely look at anything political that’s direct-mailed to me. (Who uses the mail anymore?) A good friend of mine tipped me off on this one, and I’m glad he did.
Ok, let’s look at the header on this one. “What do donkeys and rhinos have in common? A lot more than you think.” Hardy Har Har. RINO! Get it? 🙄 Anyway, bear with me and let’s look at why Jim McKelvey thinks Hurt’s sorta like Perriello…
- Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt are both lawyers, and Jim McKelvey isn’t. – Oh The Horrors! They’re both LAWYERS! I wonder how many of those evil lawyers McKelvey’s had to use in his real estate investments. Yeah, I thought so.
- Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt aren’t businessmen, and Jim McKelvey is. – OK. Thank you for that… unless you’re implying that one can’t run a business practicing law. Anyway, whoopee.
- Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt are both “career politicians”, and Jim McKelvey isn’t. – That’s right, folks. We’re guessing that he means anybody that holds public office can’t be trusted. You must need the “Angry Man Who’s Never Been A Politician.” 🙄
- Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt voted for record tax increases, and Jim McKelvey hasn’t. – There we go! It took us to the fourth entry to get to OMGWTFBBQ ROBERT HURT IS TEH TAXRASIN ENEMY! I’ll say yet again that others voted for the same budget, and nobody’s got the guts to say Charlie Hawkins & Danny Marshall are EVIL TAXRASERS! (because none of them are, of course)
- Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt aren’t for the fairtax, and Jim McKelvey is. – On the fifth line of this mailer, we get to our first total horsecrap statement. Hurt said he’s still researching the issue and doesn’t know. Considering there’s a 0% chance of the fairtax being passed in the next two years, “I’m interested in it. It’s the kind of bold thinking we have to have. I agree that we need to eliminate the IRS. Taxes must be simpler.” is an answer I can accept. McKelvey’s dishonest on this one.
- Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt don’t support term limits, and Jim McKelvey does. – Term limits will not work for an individual representative unless everybody is subject to the same term limits (and that’s never going to happen). McKelvey says he’ll limit himself to six years. So if he gets elected, the 5th District will go right down the seniority crapper. Thanks, Jim. Include me out of that idea.
- Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt (support) giving rights and benefits to same-sex couple, and Jim McKelvey doesn’t – Listen, Jim. The federal government’s got a hell of a lot more serious stuff to deal with than nosing around in people’s private personal lives. I’ve got friends who are gay and they’re just as good as any of my other friends. I don’t give a damn if your moral compass points them straight to your version of hell. Yep, you guessed it. This issue really gets under my skin. By the way, McKelvey happens to be full of horsecrap on this too. Hurt’s website says that he “opposes civil unions”.
- Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt don’t support “allowing police to ask if someone is an illegal alien”, and Jim McKelvey does. – I have no idea where this came from. There’s no cites to prove Hurt’s opinion on this and I couldn’t find anything on it. Based on the track record of the rest of McKelvey’s other attempts, I’m just not believing this either until I get proof.
And there we have it. The sad part about this direct-mail piece is that some people actually believe that Robert Hurt is really similar to Tom Perriello. But then some people believe that the moon landing was faked, that vaccines cause autism and that the Dave Matthews Band’s music is good. 😀
This mailer isn’t worth the cardboard it’s printed on. I feel this mailer is probably the last chance that Jim McKelvey has to try and derail Hurt’s speeding train. To me, it just paints McKelvey as a man who’ll do anything to energize the far-right 10% (as in teaparty) into voting for him. It’s not going to work.
well Bruce, this post will surely give Will White a heart attack.
While not even getting to the veracity of the mailer (which, by the way, i didn’t get in Kenbridge), the mailer was confusing.
maybe McK is trying to pick up some of Feda’s disaffected support.
“Tom Perriello & Robert Hurt are both “career politicians”, and Jim McKelvey isn’t.”
What? I’d easily make a case that TP is NOT a career politician. That’s why I’m not sure if running on that specific point is a winner.
“McKelvey says he’ll limit himself to six years.”
6? I thought he was saying 4.
McKelvey’s a bit of a fool, in my humble opinion.
Everyone knows how I feel about Robert Hurt as it relates to this Primary….and I have been accused more than once of being too conservative, but…
I have to say that as a conservative this mailer was plain offensive and quite honestly stupid.
If I were considering voting for this man, once I got this in the mail that vote would not happen. Among other things it smacks of desperation, and I do not like that in my candidates.
Also, the darkening of Hurt’s pic was outta line as well….Hey Jim, remember what happened when Goode’s campaign did that with that stupid commercial of Perriello unshaven and darkened so as to look evil?
I think He will loose to support due to this…Jim if you are reading this, whomever is advising you to do this kinda thing is not serving you well, and if it was your idea…it is more indication that you should should join Verga, Ferrin, and Morton and just.go. away. IMHO.
Kelley why would it give me a heart attack ? Bruce has been in the tank for Hurt from the very start. So many of you think you know so much I knew over a week ago this mailer was coming out this week and im a McPadden supporter.
people are really confused by this primary–all except a few of us. This doesn’t alleviate the confusion; it creates more.
WW: why doesn’t McK match Hurt with positive mailers, one for one?
and none of us here claim to have any insider knowledge of what the campaigns are doing.
Kelley why won’t Hurt show up at the debates ?
Kelly, I disagree with you often as it relates to this primary, but respect your posts greatly…..That is why I feel I have to ask … are you suggesting that everyone not supporting Robert Hurt is confused, or am I misreading you?
oh, Tarheel, I guess my post was confusing as well.
alot of people have asked me “what is all of this? (referring to signs, etc). who is running against Perriello?”
this primary is not at the top level of most people’s consciousness. There are many here in Lunenburg that want Perriello out, but don’t understand our nominee selection process.
anyway, I’m not sure that the mailer showing TP, RH & McK together made the primary process/selection process/nomination process any clearer to the average voter.
WW: i have no idea to which debates you refer. even so, I don’t know his schedule. He was at a grad. during the Liberty forum–previous commitment.
Kelley McKelvey sent four mailers out this week I haven’t seen but one from Hurt.
Where was he wednesday night ? He wasn’t at the debate in Cumberland.Im not running for office and I have been to more debates than Hurt has.
Someone pointed this out somewhere (from McKelvey’s campaign website about Right to Life):
“The most important guarantee of the constitution is the right to life. There was a specific reason our founders listed life first even among the three central guarantees.”
Say what?
well, WW, I haven’t seen one from McK. who did McK target? what counties? I just don’t know all these answers.
I think I got one mailer from Verga a few months back. Otherwise… nothing. Nothing from McKelvey, Hurt. Nothing from Boyd, McPadden. Nothing from anybody. 🙁
yodraN: you are indeed blessed to avoid the zillions of political mailers.
WW: don’t know where RH was on Wednesday night or any other. Call/email campaign office for that info. Perhaps he was honoring prior commitment?
Kelley they were sent to many different areas. Not all mailers were sent to every county.
Kelley he sure uses that excuse alot especially after he confirms he will attend to start with.
day #2 with no McKelvey mailer to Kenbridge Post Office. What does McKelvey have against Kenbridge?
Will,
Clearly this mailer was not a good idea and showed how desperate McKelvey is. Hurt was at a fundraiser the same night of the Cumberland event that was arranged long before. He also had more people there than were in Cumberland. He had 250 plus in Danville just this week. I hear McKelvey has a biG event of 10 planned for one night next week.
Hurt came in second last might in Albemarle at the TEA party event and that combined with his #1 ranking at the Danville Tea party online poll of their members could easily be shown to make him very strong if not the strongest TEA candidate.
Ask yourself why McKelvey waited this late to mail this piece of junk. Could it just be that he didn’t have the guts to stand up at a joint event with Hurt and put out such garbage ? If he can’t stand up now to a gentleman like Hurt, what will he do with Perriello ?
McKelvey has very serious problems including multiple FEC violations that you can see for yourself. If you know FEC law and view their site you will see them. If he were to win the nomination you can bet the Democrats would publish every one of them and weeks of the campaign would be spent explaining that they were just dumb.
Why do you think the Democrats went negative on Hurt ? They understand he is by far the strongest candidate and they don’e want him on the ballot !
why do you think the Dems polling question was: would you vote for Perriello, Hurt or undecided?
a former Perriello employee gave me an interesting song & dance when I asked him about running against Hurt. he said that Hurt would make few if any campaign mistakes.
No Tucker the reason the Democrats went after Hurt is they know he can easily be beat in the fall so they really want him to win.As far as the Albermarle event goes my understanding is Christian Schoenewald brought out people to vote in the poll for Hurt.I can’t believe he is still helping you after you failed to hand him the 5th district chairmanship.Im for McPadden so I couldn’t care less what you think of McKelvey’s mailer but it will make some people think before they vote for Perriello lite Hurt.Hurt’s worst problem is you Tucker people don’t like you as you saw at the Amish sale.What exactly has Hurt promised you Tucker ?
Kelley why do you think 48% were undecided ? You claim that Hurt is the only one that can win then why doesn’t he have more support ? As a McPadden Supporter im glad the Mailer was sent out it shows exactly how much Hurt has in common with Perriello.
by your reasoning WW, the Perriello people think Hurt would be easier for them to beat than Feda? or Verga?
Will, I am tiring of your rhetoric.
Hurt has enough support to win the primary. Based on the polls, that is more support than the other candidates which would lead one to believe that he has the best chance of beating Perriello.
and yup, we have alot of work to do before November. No Hurt supporter would deny that.
“by your reasoning WW, the Perriello people think Hurt would be easier for them to beat than Feda? or Verga?”
No Kelly, the dems knew, like everyone that Feda and Verga and Ferrin never had a chance. Everyone knows and it has been the case from early on that only 3 have any chance to win…. Hurt, McP, and Boyd…seeing that McP and Boyd are from Albermarle and certainly will cut into P’s support…which he desperately needs as the SS will almost certainly go for the republican….they made a decision that they would rather face Hurt.
McKelvey is a flash in the pan, IMO..always has been. But the dems would not mind running against him as he perfectly fits the motif that liberals paint for conservatives….angry, white, rich, etc….
IMO, the dems really fear a McP nomination….and Boyd presents them with some problems as well…the others present nothing for them to fear.
Kelley if Hurt wins the primary I will work hard to deny him the election.You have my word on it.If I can help Clark/Goode get enough votes for Perriello to win then im all for it and if you knew me you would know when I get behind a candidate I can get alot done.Kelley you have my word on this.
Thanks Tarheel you said it better than I could have.
tarheel: there are 2 schools of thought on who would be best to challenge Perriello from a geographical standpoint.
but I’ve bought into the school of thought that Southside/Southern Virginia can be a force in this election. And RH is not without personal appeal. He can get the younger crowd excited in the upper end.
Will, come 6/9, you & I will not be on the same side. Perriello does not represent the good of this district nor the good of America.
Kelley Perriello does not represent me (hell you can’t even get him on the phone) but im tired of working for a candidate and when they get to office they disappoint me. Kelley Hurt might go to office and do just fine but he hasn’t shown me from his past votes that he can stand up to the Democrats.We need someone in my opinion that will.If Hurt couldn’t stand up to Warner what in the hell is he going to do when Pelosi and Obama put the pressure on him ? Kelley I hope we are on the same page come 6/9 that would be great but if Hurt wins we won’t be this time. I have voted for the lesser of two evils too many times.
Tarheel: The Dems fear a McPadden nomination? Really? Really?
All Tom Perriello would have to do is cut one ad, quoting McP’s website, and say that “Mike McPadden doesn’t think you should have paper money,” and that’s the end of the election.
Will White: That’s incredibly short-sighted. Robert Hurt is not Dede Scozzafava. Don’t make perfect the enemy of good. You should reconsider. Hurt’s not going to be under any pressure from Pelosi or Obama; they’re going to have a hard enough time with their own caucus. All the pressure on him will be coming from John Boehner and Eric Cantor.
Kelley: I’m 21 and Robert Hurt didn’t get me excited when I saw him. Oh well.
samuel: maybe you aren’t the excitable type. just steady. that’s a positive.
@Tarheel: “seeing that McP and Boyd are from Albermarle and certainly will cut into P’s support”
Quick breakdown on Albemarle County polling precincts (info from SBE):
In 2007, not exactly a banner year for Republicans, Boyd won his seat on the Board of Supervisors in the Rivanna District (5 precincts). How did that district vote in 2008 (Perriello v. Goode)?
Perriello won Boyd’s district 4960 votes (60.24%) to Goode’s 3268 (39.69%), carrying all 5 of the precincts within the district handily (the closest Goode came was -109 votes). A total difference of 1692 votes. We all remember that 727 votes decided that entire race.
In 2007, Boyd won 3 out of the 5 precincts.
Boyd’s shown that he can win even in overwhelmingly Democratic districts. If the Southside will reliably support the Republican, I think Boyd is the best candidate we could offer. He can carry the SS, and peel off a chunk of Perriello’s geographical base.
Samuel I wasn’t saying in the election he would get pressure from Pelosi and Obama I said if he were elected.
Samuel, please don’t be foolish. McPadden can clearly articulate and relate the unregulated printing of unbacked money to our current financial crises. That one claim would not stop anyone, nor would that simplistic of an argument work. He’s not against “paper” money. Paper money is merely a contract that can be returned for its value. It’s simply an IOU. Anyone can make it. However, it’s value is tied to the trust one has in its issuer. The federal government was only supposed to issue “coins” because they had innate value not based in trust. Money firmly linked to the value of a stable commodity is more fiscally responsible. You may call it antiquated, but our money is supposed to be backed by gold. This makes currency stable. It also forces the government to live within their means. It is much harder to borrow money endlessly when you can be forced by contract to pay your debts with real value, not ink and paper
Perriello does fear McPadden for a number of reasons. Most notably, he is articulate and intelligent. He’s had a federal background check that came up clean. He’s got no voting record. He has a strong military career. This leaves little room for personal attacks(hasn’t stopped some from trying though :). In the end it forces Perriello to address McPadden on the issues. This is a battle McPadden has shown he can win.
I’m not saying they don’t fear other candidates, but I do think McPadden scares them. The others have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Robert Hurt does NOT present well. He gives wishy-washy answers in debates. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. He will not energize the conservative base. Bruce is most likely right, the hold-outs will likely cave and press the button anyway. But can he get them out going door to door? Will they be working the polls for him? I’ve worked for candidates in the past and I can assure you, I’ll sit this one out if Hurt wins. If this bothers you and ousting Perriello is your only concern, join me in supporting McPadden. Tell your friends. Otherwise you’re just as guilty as me. I’m picking a candidate you won’t vote for in the primary, and your picking a candidate I won’t support in the general. To me this isn’t about R’s and D’s, its about the restoration of a constitutional republic. If I can’t get a candidate who will fight fiercely for my beliefs, I’ll wait two more years and try again.
Yodran, you’re quite right. Boyd does well in Albermarle. I actually think he’s one of the smartest guys running. I think he’d make great decisions as a congressman. Have you seen him speak though? He presents TERRIBLY. The first few times I watched him speak, I was sure it was a bad joke. He has very little charisma and comes off as a bit crazy. Since then, I’ve read his site and his positions. I’ve also seen him answer questions with intelligent originality. If he wins, I’m behind him 100%. I just think he’s more than a long shot against Perriello. He would lose the general so I can’t support him.
VA #5: On the McP paper money thing: You’re right that he can articulate it, but a couple of attack ads from Tommy without rebuttal, and all of a sudden you’re trying to play defense. And there are a lot of uninformed people out there. Easily swayed. “What? McPadden doesn’t think we should have paper money? He wants us to only use coins? Not voting for that joker.” Then they tune out and show up to the polls in November.
It’s easy to write people off as nutjobs.
Pair it with McPadden saying that there are unanswered questions about 9-11, and you’ve got yourself a candidate dead in the water.
Unanswered questions about 9-11? Context? I must have missed that one. If your implying that Democrats can misrepresent people, than I don’t think that’s a trait held only by McPadden. Furthermore, without rebuttal? If you’re looking for a candidate that’s gonna sit back and do nothing while under attack, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
VA #5…are we brothers? LOL
Your posts here are right in line with my thoughts regarding McP, Boyd, and Hurt.
McPadden is not against paper money…he is against printing money that is backed up by nothing and is a shell game….I personally think it is high time we had an intelligent debate on that issue….He is articulate….he is highly intelligent….he is confident without appearing overly arrogant…all things that are needed in a head to head with the progressive machine that will be behind Perriello.
For a long time I vacillated between McPadden and Boyd as far as my vote on June 8th. I have finally come down on the side of McPadden, and look forward to working hard for him June 9 – The first Tuesday in November and beyond. However, if Boyd wins it…he has my 100% support and I will gladly work for him.
If Hurt wins, he will get tacit support and likely a vote from me in November (unless a candidate I like better becomes available), and that is it. He seems like a really nice guy, and may do just well in the congress if elected…but I am not convinced of that…so I cannot support him.
If Hurt wins and serves well, I will gladly admit I was wrong about him and help in 2012..just as I would if McPadden wins and does not represent well, I would work against him in a 2012 primary. Be it far from me the attitude of “well he is the one I am supposed to support”…each candidate has to stand on his/her own two feet every election.
Another side note, I would like to make to Kelly….if the ‘powers that be’ had not attempted to set the stage for a Hurt coast to victory by forcing a primary instead of a convention…. it would not be so confusing and EVERYONE would already know who was running against Perriello. It appears however that coast has hit some road blocks, even so.
Check out Senate Bill 462.It provides that no law enforcement officer when investigating a crime can inguire into tne immigration status of any victim or witness of a crime. Most of police work is investigating crime. Robert Hurt voted for this bill twice. Once in commitee and once on the floor. Thank god it was defeated in the General Assembly.
In 2004 Robert Hurt Voted for the largest tax increase in Virginia history HB 3202.But on his mailers he says he favors lower taxes. In 2009 Robert Hurt voted to give benefits to same sex couples SB 945. But on his mailers he says he will support our shared values.In 2010 Robert Hurt voted to prevent police officers from asking about a persons immigration status SB462. But in his mailers he says he will fight to stop illegal immigration. What do you believe:what he says by his votes, or what he says in his mailers?
the Senate bill would have prevented officers from asking immigration status of VICTIMS so that the victims will be more willing to swear out warrants & testify in criminal cases. the law actually protects victims of crimes.
tarheel: conventional wisdom at the time the primary v. convention decision was made was that if nominee were decided by convention, the nominee would have been Feda.
and this was born out by her support at the 5th District Convention where Bill STanley elected as 5th District Chairman.
and resultant fall-out from this has been change in many unit chairmanships prompted by Feda supporters.
how many tax increases did RH vote for this past session? didn’t he sign no-tax pledge?
if you don’t like RH, that is fine. But tout your own candidate–what is a positive thing about your candidate?
Will White: I was also talking about after his election.
VA5/Tarheel: Distill all that into a 30-second TV ad in rebuttal to Tom Perriello’s charge that McPadden doesn’t believe in paper money. Perception is reality, friends. Our current economic policies are clearly ruinous, don’t get me wrong, but Tom Perriello will go on the air right after Labor Day with all that SEIU money and paint McPadden as a whackjob. Game, set, match. YodraN is spot-on.
Re: SB462 – That only makes sense. Why would you add insult to injury by deporting a crime victim? Demagoguery fail.
Kelley in Virginia have you been in the bottle again ? If Robert Hurt is the best the Republican’s in the 5th can send to congress we are all in big trouble.Who wants another career politician lawyer to office we see where that has gotten us now.Hurt may have a R beside his name but he sure hasn’t acted like he is a conservative.There is a reason we have credit scores it shows our past performances when we were given credit of exactly how we paid our lenders back what we owed them if Robert Hurt had a political score it wouldn’t be very good.People watch out if you vote for Hurt you may not get paid back with votes you like.
Samuel if they are here illegally they should be deported end of story.
Samuel and Yodran: Seriously? You want me to forgo a candidate with the right ideas because you in your infinite wisdom have decided that Tom Perriello will run ads misleading people and there’s nothing anyone can do about it? That IS demagoguery, Samuel! In your own words, “Fail”. McPadden will defend that idea the same way he always defends his positions: with a level head, the Constitution and the guidance of our founding fathers.
Tom Perriello will find ways to lie about any candidate. I’d rather he be lying about someone who is able and willing to stand up and defend the RIGHT ideas. There are terms for someone who backs down from the right direction because the road seems difficult. “Coward” comes to mind.
Will White: you wrote, “As far as the Albermarle event goes my understanding is Christian Schoenewald brought out people to vote in the poll for Hurt.”
Since the 5th District Convention concluded, it has been stated several times that I am a Robert Hurt supporter and have done things to assist his campaign. This is categorically and completely not true. I am not a Hurt supporter. I am also not a supporter of any of the other 6 candidates. Since last August when I met with Verga, Hurt, McPadden, Boyd, and – later on in December – Mr. McKelvey, I have publicly stated that I am neutral in this race and I will not endorse, support or work for any of them until June 9th. As someone who was a part of Party leadership, I felt that it was wrong for me to pick a favorite and try and sway the Republican Party in a particular direction.
You will also note that at the Appomattox District meeting, I was one of the 13 votes for a convention and the first person to speak at the meeting in favor of a convention (awfully odd behavior for a Hurt supporter, isn’t it??).
I’m not quite sure what you and the others that seem to think I’m a Hurt supporter are trying to accomplish by linking me to Senator Hurt’s campaign. I would appreciate some kind of an explanation. I have always been up-front and honest with my motivations as it relates to the Republican Party and politics. If you have a problem with me directly, why not just come out and say it?
If you don’t like Senator Hurt and prefer a different candidate, talk about things you know that paint your candidate in a good light and don’t spread rumors and hearsay on matters that you have no proof for and have no possible way of proving.
I did not tell anyone to go to the TEA Party meeting in Albemarle. I did not personally attend the TEA Party meeting and anybody that was there can verify that fact.
As far as your other assertion that “The Establishment” was trying to “hand” me the district chair election — again, nothing could be further from the truth. Tucker Watkins did not recruit me to run. I ran because many people throughout the district that I have met over the last 5 years asked me to run.
Perhaps if we all spent more time talking about things we actually know rather than things we’ve overheard or have had come to us third or fourth-hand, maybe we would actually do a better job defeating Democrats — who I thought were the real problem.
Jeff, it’s called “immunity” – it gets passed out all the time so crimes get solved. Generally, I agree, but when we’re dealing with crime, it’s more important that the perpetrators get put behind bars.
VA5 – You overestimate my wisdom. While it’s not quite infinite, it doesn’t quite take a rocket scientist to figure out what TP’s campaign strategy would be in case of a McP nomination. The man’s unelectable. Sorry to break it to you.
“McPadden will defend that idea the same way he always defends his positions: with a level head, the Constitution and the guidance of our founding fathers.”
Great. I’d love to see him take his level head, the Constitution and the guidance of the founding fathers, mix well, bake at 350 degrees and come out with a 30 second ad on monetary policy that the average voter can understand.
Now as for this coward comment, get out from behind the pseudonym and then we’ll talk further. Suffice it to say that my refusal to vote for an unelectable candidate can hardly be called “coward[ly]” – if you want to follow the lemmings off the cliff, be my guest.
Haha. Samuel you take my words a bit broader than I meant. I don’t imply that YOU’RE cowardly. I talking about the candidates. I’m saying that a commodity backed currency would go far to protect our economy. Knowing that, but refusing to take that position because it’s difficult is disingenuous. If the rest don’t understand the safety implicit in a stable currency or simply won’t take the position, well I’ve made my point. I think its an important change that needs to be pushed for and I don’t think it’s that difficult to explain.
I meant no personal disrespect, Samuel. Unfortunately, I will not be sharing my name. I enjoy this discussion, but I’d rather it not follow me into the real world. Bit too much energy for me.
Kelly said “conventional wisdom” was that if a convention took place the nominee would be Feda.
First of all, I am not so sure….secondly….you would not be saying that I and others have been right all along as we have been saying that the ‘powers that be’ rigged the system out of concern that they control who the nominee might be? WOW!
I think Bill Stanley will be a great chair, and I personally am glad he was elected…I have nothing against the other guy (I can never spell his name) but Stanley seems top drawer to me…
again, McPadden is not against ‘paper money’…he is against worthless money….and we all should be. I think the ‘average voter’ will understand that. ‘average voters’ are perhaps not as stupid as some on this blog think they are….and I would hate to be in the position that Hurt supporters have touted here;
“Vote for my guy (Hurt) because the average voters are not smart enough to like your guy (McPadden)”
wow.
tarheel: as for the conv v. primary issue, one unit chair was gung-ho convention until he heard McK speak. Since I was not there, I cannot give you an accurate quote, but McK had comments in the same vein with his later comments about not supporting the primary winner until he knows who it is. The unit chair’s words to me “if he doesn’t want to support a Republican, then why does he want to run as a Republican?”
Meanwhile, Hurt, Boyd & Ferrin have all promised their support, influence etc to rally behind our nominee & beat Perriello. They were emphatic that beating Perriello was the most impt thing to them.
Christian I never said you were at the Albermarle event. What I said was it was my understanding that you brought people out which im sure you did.I wasn’t there either.As far as Tucker recruiting you im not sure if he did or didn’t but I know for damn sure he worked hard to get you elected.Tucker had his usual puppet’s working hard for you.You claim that the Democrats are the problem this is not so Tucker and his elite group have pushed out so many good people this is the reason we now have a Tea party.Im so glad that Bill Stanley won I feel after some hard work he can bring people back to the Republican party that Tucker had run off.Christian in my opinion you are another one of Tucker’s puppets if you aren’t people are assuming you are. In other words you are quilty by association.Tucker did anything he could to make sure it was a primary he knew if it was a convention his candidate Robert Hurt wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell.Now go ahead and tell me the bs about how Tucker wasn’t for any candidate until after he stepped down as chairman.The Democrats didn’t have to work very hard to get Perriello elected last time they had Tucker on the other side so half of their work was done.Robert Hurt might end up the same way.Christian step out from the Republican elite for a minute and take a look around the people you see won’t like Tucker very much.My bet is Tucker told you that I made the comment about you.
Kelly,
So that unit chair changed his/her “gung ho” mind about a convention vs. primary based on one comment by Jim McKelvey? I am not buying it.
I will say this though, I think the blanket “I will support the republican, no matter who it is” is part of the problem we have now. How else have people like Bill Frist, Bob Dole, and more currently Deedee in NY, Specter and PA, Snowe and Collins in ME, to some extent Graham in SC, McCain and other RINO’s stayed in power so long while selling us out at every stinkin’ turn?
I have already stated how I feel about McK…..but he does have a point. I hold allegience to conservative, liberty based principles first….then select a candidate that most fits that mold in my view…I do not say “whoever the republican is” no matter what. Not anymore…I, like McK am tired of holding my nose at elections.
BTW, McP said the other night at Chase City that he would work hard to see Perriello defeated, as that is a step toward something so immensely important to the saving of our republic from far left radicals. I think you were there, you don’t remember that?
tarheel:
1st: i’ve been a Republican for a long, long time. For that reason, I would rather see a Republican as my Congressman than someone of any other stripe. Does that mean that the Republicans corner the market on best candidates/ideas? not always.
2d: the unit chair that made the primary vote based on McK’s statement is also someone with long/deep ties to Republican party.
3d: the 2 party system has many problems inherent within it. too many to discuss here. BUT if either of the 2 parties must capture the independent vote to win, then you will see that party work with those independents. And I hope that the GOP will see the wisdom in listening to TEA party ideas.
I saw McP at daytime event in Chase City. He did not say at that event that he would work for the winner of the primary.
tarheel: none of us like holding our noses in the voting booth. But our favorite conservative (be it yourself, your neighbor, your spouse) is not always electable. That is a fundamental consideration.
Will: I’m going to keep this very simple. 1) I did not bring anyone out to the TEA Party event this past Thursday in Albemarle. I don’t know who told you what, but I am telling you I have done no such thing. 2) I don’t care if Tucker had a pick for the nominee or not. I am not responsible for his choices or his behavior. I know I have no pick and have not tried to influence any voter one way or the other. 3) Last time I checked, I am not or was not part of the so-called “Party Elite”. I’d love for you to provide some evidence to the readers of this blog that I am part of the Party Elite. Just because I was a unit chair for 2 years — the same amount of time as Bill Stanley — doesn’t make me an elite. Just because I was a district vice chair for 3 years — the same amount of time as Brian O’Connor — doesn’t make me a party elite. Just because I ran for Board of Supervisors, doesn’t make me a party elite. Just because, for the last 3 years, I worked full time during the campaigns at the Albemarle Headquarters with all of our other volunteers as a volunteer, doesn’t make me part of the party elite.
Will: something has you so twisted up inside and seeing threats in the shadows that you can’t separate fantasy from reality. I was a convention supporter, not the stand of a party elite. Tucker Watkins and I have disagreed on many issues. You are free to blame Tucker for whatever you want… but I think you are letting your hatred for that man blind you to the actions and motivations of others.
As far as the race for district chair goes, there were many people that wanted to see me win and rallied support for me. I don’t know if Tucker was one of those – he never told me who he was going to vote for. He never told me if he was lining up votes for me. If he was, I appreciate the support. Just as I appreciate the support of all of the other convention delegates that cast votes for me and the people that were working to influence their friends to vote my way. At this point, the convention is past business. Bill Stanley won and I don’t begrudge him that victory. Bill has asked me to stay involved on the district committee and I’m taking him up on the offer.
Will: I am nobody’s puppet. I never have been and I can’t help what you may or may not think about that statement. There are people that are convinced that anyone that has attained some measure of power or influence has to be someone else’s puppet. It’s a sad commentary on the state of our current system that we feel the need to attack people that have dedicated years of their life to serving the public because of a belief in the system the Founders created. Will, if you are upset at what you see to be the Power Elite in the Virginia Republican Party, find the actual people that fit that definition and attack them, and disparage their efforts. As long as you and others feel the need to attack me, because I dared to run against Bill Stanley, you will be seen by the rest of the Virginia political community who read these blogs as the half-cocked, conspiracy nuts that you are.
i will say this for Chris S (whom I’ve never met): he has volunteered to go around to different units to discuss GOTV ideas/advertising ideas/fundraising ideas.
This sounds great & I hope our unit (Lunenburg) can work out a time to get some of his advice.
Christian are you upset because I have exposed you for what you really are.If you feel im a bad person and a conspiracy nut just because im sick of the back room deals,the next person in line has to be the candidate mentality that for years have divided the Republican party then maybe I am but if Tucker thinks im bad then I must be ok.Im sick of working hard to get a candidate elected then they turn around and vote like a Democrat. Christian how did you know I made a comment about you ?
Kelley you have been in the Republican party for a long long time and you claim you never knew Tucker until the debate in Chase City ? Kelley come on now tell us the truth.
will, while active, I was in 4th CD. Became inactive (except for helping Frank Ruff) when I moved to Lunenburg. Never met Tucker Watkins until 2 weeks ago.
Will, look we get it. you are 100% against Robert Hurt.
but that doesn’t mean that people who are for Robert Hurt or who are just regular Republicans should have their veracity questioned.
Kelley you do realize if Hurt wins the primary Perriello will have two more years ? Unless Goode jumps in.Kelley I just like calling a spade a spade you should try it sometimes it feels great.
Will White, I think you are a bad person. You have slandered someone that has worked hard to elect many republicans. Tucker is gone and Christan isn’t Tucker. You want McPadden and it pisses you off that he is going to lose- nothing is going to change that in the last 10 days. Welcome to big boy politics where the best funded and candidate with the highest name ID usually wins. McKelvey’s refusal to back the winner (if it’s Hurt)is one of the many reasons he is going to lose. McKelvey is the #1 reason McPadden is going to lose as well.
If you want to pick on someone, pick on Tucker- he is a craven politicians who only successful election was to the 5th district chair. They wrote off the Northern part of the district and treat the voters there like idiots. We are better off to forget him and move on. He is directly responsible for Virgil Goode losing this race and so is Virgil, it took a team effort to lose that race. Tucker will get paid off by the Hurt Campaign some how for getting Hurt the primary- if they give Tucker a role in the general Tucker will screw that up as well.
YodraN makes a case for why Boyd and not the Mc’s would have the best chance of beating Perriello in his back yard-if you don’t like Hurt. Unless Boyd has a massive ad campaign coming on Monday till the 8th, he seems unable to get his turnout high enough to counter Hurt’s massive Southside numbers.
This is Hurt’s to lose- probably always has been. The TEA party isn’t going to win this but probably will have made Hurt a better candidate.
Will – being active in politics means that you actually look at blogs now and again. I found out you made a comment about me by using that basic skill called reading. I don’t quite understand why you think it takes a conspiracy or somebody else informing me that a comment was made on this blog or any blog that includes my name. Let me give you one other trick: it’s called Google Alerts. You see, you can tell Google to send you an email any time you are mentioned on a regular news website or a blog! Amazing stuff!
As far as calling me out for what I am… Will, I doubt you know who I am. I question whether or not you’ve even met me. Which means you’re basing your information off of hearsay, rumor and innuendo… and you know what they say about assuming. I think that you are a perfect illustration of what’s wrong with many people – not all – but many people that comment on blogs: you don’t take the time to find out if what you’re saying about someone is correct or not. At this point, I have more respect for liberal reporters that at least call me and try to get the story right, rather than people like you who just spew things they’ve heard and/or imagined. I will try to say this in as simple terms as possible: I am not, nor have I ever been, part of the Party Elite. If I have, then so have people like Bill Stanley, Brian O’Connor, Bob Marshall, Feda Morton and many others who have dedicated many hours and years of their lives to Republican and conservative service. When you crap on one person for their years of service, you crap on everyone who have given similarly. I hope you’re proud of yourself.
Manchen I stand firmly behind what I have said. If you think im a bad person you certainly have every right to your opinion.Im sure Kelley will agree with you but sometimes we need to speak up for what we believe is right.
Christian I have met you several times.At the convention,at a unit meeting and in Chase city.If you dislike me that makes me feel great.If I were you I wouldn’t put myself in the company of the people you claim not to be part of if you don’t want to be seen as part of that group.You ever heard birds of a feather flock together or if you lie down with dogs you might get up with fleas ?
Will, you have it all wrong. Christian isn’t Tucker’s puppet, he’s mine.
And I stand firmly behind the fact you are blinded by the realization that your guy is going to lose- 3rd or 4th at best. Picking on Christian that shows a weakness of character that colors all else that you are trying to say. To me McPadden is a patriot whose sense of self importance is the the number one reason many people don’t like him. Is it he smart- you bet, is he the savior of the 5th district- not so much. Has he littered the highways with his illegal placed signs. yep he’s done that to. Has he rambled on about “paper money” and why the marriage amendment isn’t needed. He’s even said we should basically stop talking about changing abortion laws since nothing has happen since Roe vs. Wade.
Will I can spend all day writing about why Mike McPadden can’t win the 5th and how much of it is people like you telling me why he is the most qualified guy and then proceed belittle anyone else that disagrees with you.
Will – I do not dislike you. I actually feel sorry for you. You seem so caught up in pointing fingers at people and laying blame on everyone except yourself and the people you believe in for all of the various failures that have happened politically. As far as meeting you several times, I do not recall meeting or being introduced to someone going by the name “Will White”. If that is your real name, I apologize for the lapse in memory, but it has become very difficult with blogs these days to know if people are posting under their real name or not. As to the company that I keep, over the past 5 years of political activism, I have kept the company of people that I would define as ultra-conservative all the way to moderate, possibly leaning a little liberal. When you devote your time to service, you don’t always get to pick everyone that’s around you. Instead, you work with the other people that are willing to devote their time to service. You would probably be surprised to know that there are things that your candidate has said that I agree with wholeheartedly. Let’s be clear: this does not count as endorsement because there are things that all 7 candidates have said that I agree with wholeheartedly. I am not upset. I am not angry. I am not disturbed by anything you’ve said. I am disappointed that you, a seemingly intelligent person, would spread unverified rumors on the internet. This makes you no better than the liberal reporters who have agendas that I suspect you have a great dislike for. The ultimate objective this year is to beat Tom Perriello. Any of our 7 are going to be better than our current Congressman. All 7 of them have definite positives and definite negatives. Your quarrel is not with me. I’m glad that you’ve found a candidate to support and work for, just as I’m glad that Kelley and others on this website have found candidates that they believe in and support. Be worthy of your candidate and don’t waste your time spreading falsehoods or gossip. Will, what is your actual problem with me, personally? Not the people that I’ve been seen with over the last 5 years (which number in the thousands) but me, directly?
Christian I don’t have a problem with you personally.It is some of the crowd.I am a McPadden supporter but if he doesn’t win I will support any of the other candidates EXCEPT Hurt. I won’t vote for the lesser of two evils this time.If the Republican party were to get back to it’s conservative principles and put forth truely conservative candidates they would win more elections we also wouldn’t have the Tea party in my opinion.If we would have had a convention and picked any truely conservative candidate you Kelley and me would all be on the same page.Tucker didn’t want this so here we are split seven ways.Look at the money we could have saved and the hard feelings we could have spared.
Will, I have worked hard for candidates in the past that lost. some lost by a little, some lost by alot.
But a convention could have nominated Feda possibly. I would certainly have voted for her. She would not have done well against Perriello.
of course, this is just my “elitist” “establishment” opinion.
and who/what is Clark/Goode? jeff clark & which Goode?
Kelley we have found something we agree on.If Feda had been nominated at a convention(which you are 100% correct that was the thinking at the time she had alot of supporters)I think everyone would be behind her now.We also agree Feda is a train wreck of problems but everyone would be together.Virgil Goode is who I meant btw.
Christian and Kelley we should ALL want to put forth truely conservative candidates that will unite everyone we should all be working together.Kelley do you really think that Hurt will unite everyone after the primary ?Im a McPadden supporter but if we would have had a convention that picked Boyd,Ferrin,Verga,Feda,McKelvey,or McPadden we would have been on the same page right then.Look at the money that candidate would have now.Alot of donors won’t give until they know who the candidate is going to be.
Kelly, Feda would never have won a convention- the reason you were against it is because it could have been not Hurt. Be honest.
manchen: i certainly do think Feda would have won the convention. she has/had tremendous homeschooler & evangelical & religious right support in addition to her other support . Those supporters always show up. They are some of the most loyal & highly motivated voting bloc out there.
Joe Thomas I wouldn’t hold that against him you seem to be a great person.It was nice to have met you in Chase city.
Everyone have a great Memorial Day and weekend please remember our veterans that have given so much to keep us free and be safe.Im leaving for Oak Island NC be back Tuesday.
Kelly – Hurt got Tucker to give him the primary which cost localities $10’s of thousands of money in bad budget times. Feda won one badly designed straw poll that doesn’t mean a thing and that doesn’t show what a real convention would have meant. Hurt got a primary because he could have lost a convention. She would never have been on the final ballot her convention support would have been firm but never have grown past the number in the first ballot. You are purposely overestimating her support to excuse Hurt’s use of a primary.
It may be more probable it would have ended up a anti-tucker/ anti-hurt bloc that might have seen Boyd nominate or someone else. I would have been shocked if the negative dirt on Feda wouldn’t have crushed her support in a convention just like it has in this primary.
I’m not trying to change history Kelly but you shouldn’t try and sugarcoat it either.
Lets also be honest about something here. With the Gilmore nomination for senate by a less than 1% majority being a notable exception;
Conventions tend to nominate conservatives popular with the grass roots base of the party.
Primaries tend to favor the candidate with the most establishment support and money.
Ergo establishment politico’s are ‘afraid’ of conventions….they like to control the party…and conventions tend to impede that desire.
Tarheel, you are arguing cross-purposes here. Conventions are where the proverbial “back-room dealings in a smoke-filled room” take place, not primaries. Conventions nominate the candidate of the party bosses. Primaries allow a larger number of voters to have their preferences heard. This is, after all, a democracy.
Let us look at the 1994 Republican Senate convention. Oliver North, popular with Party insiders, won the nomination. Republican Marshall Coleman ran in the general election as an independent, due to a factional-ized grassroots base. Conventions cause rifts, not unity, because party elites make the decisions.
Again, in 1996, Senator John Warner, who was unpopular with the GOP leadership, chose a primary over a convention because of this fact. Warner eventually won both the primary and proceeding general election.
Since we are having a primary in a week, it is irrelevant to speculate on who would have won a convention. The person who is most popular with the most people will win.
Any discussion about the cost or Democratic crossover is also moot. Money should not be a constraint for the voice of the people. Democrats are not organized enough to mount a campaign to swing the vote one way or another. If they have, it must be the best kept secret in the Fifth.
In summary, Tarheel’s assesment was misguided. Conventions equate to party insiders, while primaries equate to the will of the people.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Th. Paine… The original holder of that name is spinning. This is NOT a democracy. Deemed one of the crassest and abuse prone forms of government by our founders, we live in a Constitutional Republic. That’s a pet-peeve of mine.
The problem with primaries is simply that the one with the loudest voice(in the modern day that means most money) typically gets the majority support. Conventions aren’t party elite, anyone can be a delegate. You just have to be paying attention. Frankly, I like that razor. If you’re not paying enough attention to get involved in the convention, you have every right to your opinion. It’s just not an informed one.
Excuse the faux pas and allow me to clarify. I know that a republic is the form of government that we have. A primary, however, in which one person equals one vote, is by definition a form of direct democracy. This is what I meant.
Money is an indicator of success, not the cause of it. You over-simplify the many other variables of the political process with your reasoning.
Also, 5th District Republican Party rules would limit a convention to around 1200 members. What about interested voter 1201? 1202? The principle of exclusion indicates elitism.
Finally, “informed” is subjective. Even though it kills me that some voters pick at random on election day, who are we to say that their vote should not count?
Th. Paine – Slight clarification about convention attendance: the number of delegate votes is a formula determined at the Locality level: total votes for Republican presidential candidate plus total votes for Republican governor candidate — both in the most recent election — divided by X where X = a number decided by the district committee between 1 and 500. This formula is specified by the State Party Plan.
Let me be clear: the amounts above are determined at the Locality level and are added up to total the final district number.
For the sake of argument, let’s say the formula worked out to 1200 delegate votes. Each delegation is allowed up to 5 voters per delegate vote. So, in the case of a convention with 1200 delegate votes, there could be up to 6000 voters at the convention. If there seems to be a lot of excitement going into the process, the formula could have been set differently to allow an even higher number of delegate votes, which means an even higher number of convention delegates. For example, setting X to 1 would have yielded over a hundred thousand delegate votes for the convention…. and with each delegate vote able to be split 5 ways, that could have resulted in a convention able to accommodate more people than live in the District.
Please keep in mind, delegates and delegate votes are not the same thing.
Vote early & vote often. 😀
RS – I do understand the mechanics of the Convention. I am arguing that the party leadership could limit the number of delegates/delegate votes. A primary sets X to the lowest value that would accommodate every voter of the Fifth. Plus, conventions disenfranchise overseas military personnel, and other non-mobile voters.
Alas, we have a primary, which allows the most amount of voters to have their voice heard.
Rachel: I didn’t realize that X could be set all the way down to 1. Interesting. In your experience, what is X usually set at?
Samuel – not sure… 1:250? I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of a delegation maxing out their number. And even if they did, they can vote in an equal number of alternates. Alternates stand a pretty solid chance of getting to vote at the convention since not all elected to be delegates show up at the convention.
Conventions are too damned confusing. Long live primaries! 😉
Editor’s Note: Will, I get it. You don’t like the guy. That being said, stay classy…ok?
Ok I will behave.
I thought this was a blog about McKelvey throwing more ignorance against the wall and exposing himself as a dork, once again. But it has turned into a hatefest. Get back to the subject at hand. McKelvey=big oaf.
Actually Rachel Schoenewald is totally wrong about the monster convention that could have tens of thousands of delegates. Article VIII, Section 5 says the ration is from 1 for 100 to 1 for 500, as set by the district committee… so it can never be 1 to 1. The absolute max would be like 13K delegates – still a pile but far less than the number of voters in the district. Sad to say, Rachel is on State Central and she doesn’t even know the Plan.
correction section F not 5.
Not Tim – Thanks for the correction – you’re right, it is 100-500. In my attempt to demystify the process, I misread the number in the Party Plan. My apologies if that confused the issue for anyone. The bottom line is that it would be pretty tough, even with 1:100, to max out on delegates.
The 5th District convention this year could have maxed out (using the 100 number) at about 13,700 delegates… which is almost double the number of actual people that showed up at the 2009 State Convention.
(On a side note, I generally stay away from posting on blogs. Though I think it can be a great way to explain to people what’s going on, the random Anonymous/Not-Someone attacks that seek to only tear down everyone are really not conducive to the political process. If these people were willing to be honest about who they are and stand by their words, then maybe we could have real discourse.)
WOW – stumbled upon this site by accident. I have to say – I only met Christian J. Schoenewald once and he was the most personable person, the most real person I have ever met involved in politics. He spoke at a meeting in Lawernceville that I attended with the son of a candidate for the the 5th district congressional candidacy.
Point being – he did not seem to be an “insider – elite” He he seemed to be an average person with a desire to help the party pick a candidate that can WIN…………..horrible thought?!?!
I endorsed Mr. Ken Boyd – whom I feel didn’t win because of funding and white hair………………so relax. Focus on the big picture – “SAVING OUR COUNTRY AND CONSTITUTION”