(Editor’s Note: This article is now complete.)
We’re LIVE! at Danville City Hall for tonight’s Danville City Council meeting. The meeting starts at 7PM, and we’ll start our exclusive LIVE! coverage before then. If you want a preview of what’s on tonight’s agenda, read today’s earlier SouthsideCentral article.
Be sure to refresh the page often to get the latest happenings, photos and commentaries on what’s going on.
We’ve got a good turnout tonight. From left to right: We’ve got 3 guys in suits from Centra, the back left are some city retirees, Missy Neff Gould and Bill Sgrinia in the black outfits, Sheila Baynes talking to Larry Campbell, and Jim Turpin in the red checkered shirt. And of course, HEY DELORES! 😀
We’re underway with all councilmembers present. Proclamation time, and we’re done. Averett’s athletic director Meg Stevens speaks about the improvements in their athletic system, and wow, I’m impressed. Averett athletes have a 3.08 GPA. We’re going to try to be at Averett’s home football opener on Saturday for some LIVE! coverage. My turn. I make my speech about skirting the Virginia Open Meetings law. I’ll publish my speech in an article tomorrow. Let’s get started with the business part of the agenda.
City retirees bonus is pulled from the consent agenda, and the rest of the consent agenda is passed. Now let’s go for the elephant in the room, the bonus for the retirees.
Harold Garrison speaks against the retiree bonus and covers the topic well by using statistics. Council is hard to read as Garrison goes over his statistics. James Turpin speaks for the retirees and the bonus. Sheila Baynes speaks against the bonus. I speak against the bonus with the points that I raised in my OpinionCentral about it.
The motion to pass the bonus is made by Gary Miller, seconded by James Buckner. That means Buckner is voting yes. Sigh. So much for the smart businessman thinking I was hoping for.
Buddy Rawley speaks against the proposal. Fred Shanks concurs. Gary Miller speaks in favor. Miller talks about medical expenses rising. Lee Vogler talks about previous cost of living increases given by city councils. Saunders says that he will call for the vote soon. If he does that while people still want to discuss the motion, I hope he gets overruled by the council. Shanks clarifies that any budget surplus will be encumbered, challenging Vogler’s position. Vote time. The bonus passes 6 – 2. Sigh.
On to new business. Everything should go smooth from here. The Main St. Commission on Architectural Review item has been pulled because the appellant didn’t know it was on tonight’s agenda .
Centra proposal fails due to no motion. What the hell? Note: I’ve found out that this was discussed in a previous work session and council had no interest in making Centra’s new facility tax-exempt. The Centra representatives were caught off-guard by this, and so was the media. I asked the Centra reps and they said the facility will still be built using Centra’s own money.
Around the horn time. Every councilmember congratulates Lee Vogler on the birth of his new son. OK, we’re done here after we add some bonus photos. We will have a BreakDown article on tonight’s meeting soon.
Bruce, you go!
Anyone who votes for the retiree bonus should be voted out next time, no exceptions.
Bruce, what has to be done to begin a recall election?
Why do you think architectural review item was pulled?
According to a council member, the owner asked that the item be pulled from the agenda tonight.
Maybe the guy at the top of the retiree list getting $3742 will take the poor woman at the bottom of the list getting $22 out to lunch.
Maybe I’m not understanding the Centra item at all, but in essence they wanted to spend a crap ton of money (albeit financed at low rates) to build a very nice new facility near the Sam’s Club. City council just stopped them from doing that because Centra is a nonprofit? Seriously? Is LifePoint that seriously in the pockets of every member of Council? From here, unless I’m missing some subtlety, this appears to be the type of ignorant blunder I am used to hearing about from the Pittsylvania County Board of Supervisors.
I cannot believe there’s not something else going on here. How can elected officials show such contemptuous disdain for residents? And at the same time seem to mismanage just about everything they deal with? Lifepoint clearly has got council bought and paid for.
I’m not sure if this was a Lifepoint issue. It’s looking like more of a tax-exemption issue. I’m researching this more and will write a BreakDown article on this soon.
Perhaps I may explain the Centra thing better than my attempt at the Council meeting. Centra is good for the City. Competition is always good and is entirely what made America great. They will build and will provide competition to DRMC (according to what answers they provided us after the work session. ) That is good.
First, before we get to the meat and potatoes, they sent some lawyer out of Richmond to present their case at the last work session. That person drove two and a half hours to Danville, could not answer a single pertinent question over twenty minutes, and drove back to Richmond…truly wasting everyone’s time (and Centra’s money.)
The only really pertient questions involved impact on tax revenues…real estate taxes, tools and machinery taxes, and Business and Professional Occupation taxes. The Lawyer was unable to answer any of those questions. Long story short, Centra is moving from three buildings and three businesses that contribute those taxes (that DRMC pays) from the tax roles, and using Lynchburg IDA low interest financing to do that….permanently removing real estate taxes (land and improvements), and other tax revenues from the tax roles.Not only that, the lot and building that they build, and the equipment, and the professionals that contribute those taxes are forever removed from City revenue. (Unlike a Best Buy, or even a DRMC facility.
I believe there is no Council Member opposed to competition, but I believe Council saw no reason to support an unlevel playing field in financing the deal while removing the property, equipment and employee revenue forever. There was and is room for mitigating those lost revenues to the citizens of Danville. That discussion was never offered to Council.
In the meantime, they will build, they will have to recieve fiancing in a similar manner as DRMC. Again, i think we all support Centra’s presence, just on a level field.
It is interesting that the people of Danville used to whine and moan about the hospital when it was a non profit hospital. Then it is sold out from under the people of Danville by 5 men who took the money and control it like its their own piggy bank play money. Now there is another non profit hospital that wants to come into town and maybe the people of Danville could all benefit from it equally as needed and of course DRMC is not going to like the competition.I am not so sure that Centra coming h
ere and the city not getting taxes,etc from it is such a horrible thing seeing how much the people of Danville have been hurt from the loss of Dan River and the tobacco industry.Maybe the people of Danville will be better served not getting those taxes and having another choice on their health care.
Berkeley,
I could agree with you if this were a new service being offered. It’s not. It’s a consolidation of 3 existing offices they already have in Danville. This will reduce their employment, reduce taxes paid to the city, take up a large chunk of a desirable piece of commercial property and again, offer nothing new in terms of services provided to people in Danville. That’s why there is some opposition to it. Not because Centra wants to come here.
LV
“IF” they can reduce their cost and offer as good or better service as DRMC as a non profit then that may not be so bad for everyone involved.DRMC may have less non pay people show up there and Centra may offer service cheaper since they are non profit. I seem to remember being told by the ones selling the hospital that non profits were soon to be a thing of the past and that was why the hospital needed to be sold to begin with. There are plenty of non profits organizations here I do not believe Centra will hurt us too badly. If only churches had to pay taxes. If that ever happens it will be interesting to see how many churches will close.
Again, it’s not anything new Centra wants to do. Centra is already here. They own 3 structures within 1 mile of the new site right now. They want to close those and move them all into the one space. I have no problem with them moving but they shouldn’t get Lynchburg IDA money to do it.
Perhaps Danville should concentrate on being good stewards of Danville’s own money before telling the much more successful Lynchburg what to do. I don’t think it’s likely they have a number of compete joke contracts with the Tobacco Commission coming due on the taxpayer dime.
How desirable is the property if it’s a vacant lot right now? This is flimsy.
You’re right Lee Smallwood, but you can’t tell the people in the know anything because they just think you’re one of the unwashed.
Danville Regional Medical Center has 17 properties in Danville. They are currently delinquent on six of the properties in the amount of $13,346.24, according to the City of Danville website.
Council may say they are not opposed to competition and are pro-business but many times it doesn’t appear that way in their debates and votes. Also, many people in Danville and the surrounding area are now choosing to go out of town for their medical care, wouldn’t it be better to keep those people in Danville by offering them an alternative? I would rather a non-profit medical facility not pay real estate taxes than a non-profit private club.
Nicole,
That would be true if this were a new service being offered. It’s not. It’s a consolidation of 3 existing offices they already have in Danville. This will reduce employment, reduce taxes to the city, take up a large chunk of a desirable piece of commercial property and again, offer nothing new in terms of services provided to people in Danville. That’s why there is some opposition to it. Not because Centra wants to come here.
LV
By all means let’s move Danville forward by not allowing a legitimate business to build upgraded facilities and offer more options for the people. In the mean time let’s all jump and shout about the new YMCA that is exempt from taxes, open only to dues paying members, and sitting on the one good thing the city has going for it, the Riverwalk Trail.
Nicole, how is it “more options” when they are taking 3 businesses they already have here and moving them into one? There are ZERO new services coming with this. Centra is already in Danville. I have no problem with them being in Danville but please don’t think that any new benefit is going to come from this. They are simply moving existing services and wanted Lynchburg IDA money to do it. Nothing more, nothing less. Competition is great. I welcome it. But I think some people are a little confused as to what this business will actually be. It’s not a hospital. This isn’t the proposal they had a couple years ago. This is just a consolidation of what they already have in Danville.
How many offices were going to be consolidated into the River District Tower project, which is also a theoretically desirable bit of real estate in the supposedly hot River District? Where’s the progress on that City-supported project? This is looking worse the more I look at it, not better.
I was thinking more along the lines of “options” in services offered not as direct competition to the hospital. If you have 3 offices and combine them into 1 new facility with better more up to date equipment, especially in lab services, it is to be expected that there will be more comfortable surroundings for the patient, faster and even more accurate results from tests, room to add staff that may now be needed but can’t be put in place because of space and/or the inability to spread one person around 3 offices. I am thinking in terms of people needing therapy and counseling that are now having to visit 2 places or even drive to an out of town office to get what they need. It may also lead to adding specialist to the staff such as nutritionist and specialized therapy if the need is great enough. You are seeing a “doctor’s office” and I am seeing a better facility that will help the people of Danville whether they are current or future patients of Centra. The DRMC was once non-profit and depending on the market and whether someone out there waves enough money at Lifepoint it may be again in the future. Of course, as a member of the great unwashed I don’t have a clue, but for what it’s worth this is my opinion.
Doesn’t the city already treat non-profits differently than “for” profits?
So Councilman Vogler is against “non-profit” breaks if part of the non-profit comes an entity that was paying taxes because it was profit?
No Sheila, but nice try.
Looks like City Council needs a good cleaning out to me.
Thinking more about this, I contrast it with the LifePoint-involved River District Tower project that isn’t going forward any time soon from what news I have seen. Was there council opposition to that? I seem to recall that the City was and has been all about that apparently failed project, but it doesn’t want to enable others to pay for a sound project in Danville. Yep, this is the Council improperly picking winners and losers to me. It’s ugly and should not be tolerated by the citizens.
Danville — where the failed projects by the good old boys are strongly favored over the successful projects of the outsiders.
I see that it was reported just today that the Tower project is actually back on BECAUSE THE CITY ALLOCATED THE ENTIRE $20 MILLION TAX CREDIT IT GOT FOR SUCH THINGS TO THIS ONE PROJECT.
In light of that development, the decision on the Centra project is completely and utterly unconscionable.
“…supposedly hot River District” indeed. This July, I decided to do a little experiment. On one Saturday, I spent the hours of 9 to 2 in Downtown Danville. I also came back at 7. I did the exact same thing in Lynchburg the next Saturday. Neither day had any big “event” scheduled outside of the normal Farmer’s Market. It’s unfair to make certain comparisons to larger cities like Roanoke or Greensboro, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to compare Danville and Lynchburg. It was like night and day. Downtown Lynchburg has 100 times the economic/cultural vitality that Downtown Danville has. The Farmer’s Market in Lynchburg had a bigger crowd, but it’s a little larger city, so I won’t hold that against Danville. But outside of the Farmer’s Market…Lynchburg had people all over downtown. Danville? I saw maybe 5 people at the wine shop/furniture joint. Almost nothing else was happening outside of the normal crowds at Jackie’s and Rippes during the day. When I came back at 7, Danville was literally deserted outside of a few folks at Jake’s, maybe 4 customers at the pizza place, and a decent crowd at Golden Leaf. Lynchburg was hopping at the same hour. People were all over downtown doing shopping/eating/etc. The “River District” is a couple of restaurants and a few people at the wine shop on the weekend. There is literally nothing going on in the rest of Downtown Danville on Saturday except Jackie’s and Rippes. And Jackie’s and Rippes were flourishing long before the “River District.”
I am a native of Lynchburg and have lived in Danville for the past 36 years. Lynchburg has a downtown where the main streets are relative flat. Danville has a downtown where the main streets are uphill. You can walk downtown Lynchburg!
One of the speakers at last night’s City Council meeting said he did not here my numbers on the retiree “bonus” payout, but he was sure he would not agree with them. Let me be perfectly clear, I know math. Here are the numbers presented last night and a couple new numbers. Six members of City Council voted last night to give $450,000 to FORMER city workers. I took the list of city retirees and their retirement payments published by South Side Central. There are 559 names on that list. The top 5% of the retirees will get 14.7% ($66,150), these retirees already receive $1,587,600 in retirement. The top 10% of the retirees will get 26.1% ($117,450), these retirees already receive $2,818,800 in retirement. The top 20% of the retirees will get 47.1% ($211,950), these retirees already receive $5,086,800 in retirement. Now for the bottom of the list. The bottom 20% of the retirees will get 3.3% ($14,850), these retirees receive only $356,400 in retirement and the bottom 10% of the retirees will get only 1.1% ($4,950), these retirees only receive $118,800.
Now for individuals (not by name) but by position on the list showing the bonus payment and the yearly retirement pay in ( ).
Number 1) $3,742 ($89815) Number 2) $3,145 ($75,476) Number 3) $2,812 (67496) Number 4) $2,697 ($64,727) Number 5) $2,665 ($63,975) Number 6) $2472 ($59,328) Number 7) $2,469 ($59,258) Number 8) $2,424 ($57,948) Number 9) $2,371 ($56,906) Number 10) $2,336 ($56,076)
Now for the bottom ten on the list starting with the lowest: Number 1) $23 ($536) Number 2) $28 ($666) Number 3) $29 ($699) Number 4) $35 ($822) Number 5) $42 ($1,009) Number 6) $48 ($1,134) Number 7) $51 ($1,210) Number 8) $52 ($1,245) Number 9) $54 ($1,289) Number 10) $59 ($1,404)
My simple question is this: Who did City Council help by this action?
Favored sons, of course. Follow the stench of the council meeting from this to Centragate.
…………attention council,don’t make the same mistake your dad made,use protection!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lee, your second explanation gave more details. So, members of council are concerned because Centra wants to do something that is perfectly legal to do. Centra will be non-profit. Aren’t non-profits giving special consideration? Life Point is for profit. So, we have a policy of equal footing in place? Non-profit/for profits get equal considerations? Has Centra found a way to use the system (like most business does) that hurts our tax base? Don’t we have a system in place that allows for our tax base to be hurt? Do we have a system in place that allows decisions based on the whims of whomever is on council at the time? I am so confused!
Lee, you and five others just voted to give about $450,000 to retirees, many of whom make more by not working than many in Danville are making while working. You yourself said that we had a surplus of $4million (well, now it is -$450,000) You also said that if we can spend money to end blight (which helps our whole community) we can certainly give money to our retirees. I just don’t understand the concept in the comparison of such two different things. (I do understand though that retirees vote don’t they.;) ) While I do not like a declining tax base, I don’t know what coherent system we (city) use to decide who gets what. Learning about having to pay back money given to failed companies (which came as a surprise even to council) shows that we have not had exceptional stewardship of our dollars. And just to make you happy, you also mentioned that if we can spend money on consultants, why can’t we give it to retirees? In essence you told us that because we spent on these other things we may as well spend for this. Your comments were an effort to justify why you were going to vote for the retiree bonus. With that attitude I have to wonder what more is to come. This from the guy who wanted to cut back on street lights because every little bit helps.
Just a note about city retirees that vote: the population of Danville over 18 and eligible to vote is 33,970. Assuming 600 retired city workers and about 1,000 city workers still on the payroll, there are 21 voters for every city retiree/city employee. I thought most of the council members were better at math. Guess not!
Shiela B—-You may see the street lights get turned off if the utility company is sold and the city starts paying to burn them instead of make money off of them.
It is sad that some citizens are upset about the retirees raise. Council members who voted yes understood the plight of the retirees. Yes, some retirees have nice pensions but should other retirees be punished because they didn’t have the fancy salaries while working for the city. Many of the retirees went years without COLA or merit raises which impacted their salaries as well as their retirement pension amount. The city has always found money for their pet projects so it was time the retirees get their due justice of a bonus. Many city employees are under paid in comparison to the private market. Some departments within the city have a high turnover rate because of low wages. So, the retirees should be commended for their tenure with the city and to qualify for retirement with the city. These dedicated employees enjoyed their public service and have never had the respect from the community. The only time you hear anything about city employees is when something negative happens. When was the last time you thanked a police officer, fireman, social worker, gas or utility worker for their hard work? These folks put their lives on the line protecting our city, the innocent, and providing electricity and gas to your homes. The things most citizens od Danville take for granted!!!
To avoid confusion, the retirees did not get a raise (COLA), they are getting a one-time “bonus” added to their monthly check (in November). This amount will not appear in your check but once, it will not be a monthly addition to what is already being paid so if you are expecting to see an increase in any check other than November you will be disappointed.
I’d strongly encourage you and the others here who hide behind pseudonyms to reveal your identities. The message has a lot more resonance that way. If the purpose of this bonus was to help the less compensated retirees, a much better formula could have been derived involving years of service and pension amount.
Thank you Lee. I was thinking the same thing before dinner and intended to post that comment later tonight.
I am going to take issue with your comment that city employees are “under paid in comparison to the private market.” I worked in industry and I can assure you that industry workers and managers would argue the point. You might wish to discuss this with your friends that worked in retail, food service, banking (just pick one). In addition there are many former Dan River Mills employees that are receiving monthly retirement payments that would fall within the bottom 10 city retirees. And indeed, there are many former Dan River Mills employees that are receiving nothing for many years of work, their jobs were there one week and gone the next. The great majority of citizens in Danville that receive a retirement payment each month do not receive a COLA and and will NEVER receive a bonus. You see, the private market does not give FORMER EMPLOYEES a bonus!
I will say this for the city employees — a big part of the disparity in pay for working in the public sector is the promise of a better and more secure retirement. Study after study shows that state and local government workers do make notably though not seriously less money than private sector peers doing the same or similar types of work. Another benefit that the more educated public sector workers get is better quality of life. An attorney in private practice tends to take home a lot more stress and work a lot more free hours than the attorney at the Commonwealth’s Attorney’s office, the City Attorney’s Office, or the Public Defender’s office for instance.
It is true that pensions generally don’t include bonuses and things, but it is also true that the pensions promised to these workers included a COLA provision that should have probably been addressed more definitively when COLA raises for current employees were eliminated. I frankly don’t really have sympathy for these workers to the extent they’re blaming increases in expenses like prescriptions or other things, but I do think they have a point and have made a case for some type of bonus when times are legitimately good for the City. I don’t count good times as lots of money due because of bad loan guarantees for economic development, a state budget seriously in the red that will impact next year, and a large electric rate increase.
I believe the media has made it clear that retirees are getting a bonus. Nothing has been said that retirees are receiving a COLA. Nothing new about not receiving COLA’s. They were few and far between as were merit raises when we were active employees.
I only made the point because you called it a “raise” in your original post.