It’s a new SouthsideCentral feature category! We’ll use this one when we need to make a list of winners & losers when it comes to things that happen in the region. So being completely unoriginal, we’re calling this new feature “Winners & Losers”. Whatever. Heh.
Today, Danville’s Confederate flag issue was solved in a way that I didn’t see coming. Let’s look at what happened and see who the Winners & Losers were.
First, we’ll go to the city’s press release on the issue.
City Manager Joe King announced today that the City Council will consider a resolution at its November 6, 2014 meeting stating that it has determined that under Virginia law, the City does not have the legal authority to remove the Confederate flag flying on the grounds of the Danville Museum of Fine Arts and History. The City Manager received a September 30, 2014 letter from Cara Burton, Executive Director of the museum, conveying her board of directors’ request that the City of Danville remove the Confederate flag. The November 6th resolution directs the City Manager to notify the museum Board of Directors that it cannot consider its request.
So that happened. Hey, I’ll admit that I blew my prediction badly. Let’s start this Winners & Losers feature off with a Big Board Of Winners!
Winners:
- City Council: Now, they don’t have to go on the record with either their support on either side of the issue. Anybody that didn’t say anything before can pretend this issue never happened.
- Danville: With this issue closing so quickly, all of the flag supporters and flag opponents have had all of their plans ruined over what would have been the next four weeks of building controversy. Now that the issue is dead, things will quickly return to normal.
- Clarke Whitfield: With his legal opinion, he got the city out of the hot water. Whitfield (and his staff) make excellent city attorneys.
- Flag supporters: Even though they won their ultimate goal because the flag will stay, it was a technical win.
- Real estate agents: The Sutherlin Mansion is now not “not for sale”. If you get what I mean.
Losers:
- The Danville Museum of Fine Arts & History’s Board of Directors: This was a bad idea to start with, it got worse, and now they’ve got to wait until the issue goes away.
- DRMC’s Eric Deaton & Duke Energy’s Davis Montgomery: They looked horribly uncomfortable sitting in the audience, even though the moved up to the media table. Both of them came to speak and had to get um… “special treatment” by being called on first during the public comment session so they could get out of the way of the flag supporters/opponents. Side note: I asked them both if they’d like to take a Confederate flag to the podium with them for their speech. I was quite surprised that neither of them took me up on that offer. Heh.
- Tuesday’s flag support speakers: Tuesday’s speakers that were bad were very bad. The well-dressed polite local pro-flag speakers (both of them?) got steamrolled by the people who JUST DIDN’T WANT OUR FLAG TAKEN DOWN and won’t be back to Danville until this happens again 20 years from now. Even some of the local speakers went horribly off track… and I’ve again got to mention the Worst Speaker Ever, Chatham’s Glen Scearce.
- Flag opponents: If this issue hadn’t been decided on a technicality, I firmly believe that the flag was going to be gone after the council process. Now, it’s going to be there for good.Until the next time this comes up.
- Danville United: This could have been an issue for them to prove that Danville is truly United (HA! Like that’s ever going to happen!), but the issue came and went between their every-two-months meeting schedule. The group could have had a chance to weigh in on a current issue, but nope. Is this group heading towards what happened with the “Coalition For A Safe Danville”? Remember that group?
That’s enough for now. I may add some more to this Winners & losers column later on.
We’ve got more coming up on SouthsideCentral!
What was the legal authority that put the flag there that doesn’t give them the legal authority to take it down?
Never mind, I read the statute…
With respect to Mr. Whitfield and Mr. Spencer to the extent he was involved, I do not think it is likely that is an accurate assessment of the statute. The language involving the swap of confederate to union symbols was added after the erection of the memorial. It’s easy enough to see the statute as written back to 1998 by looking at the General Assembly website.
Additionally, it should be noted that despite similar cries of illegality pursuant to the same statute, the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts has taken down two monument flags from its state-owned grounds. The board of that body includes lightweights like the Speaker of the House of Delegates, the Mayor of Richmond, and the Governor.
I think this was a nice try to keep politicians from having to make a stand that is bound to be unpopular either way, but I don’t think it has succeeded. It will be interesting to see how the vote goes next meeting.
I hardly give Clarke Whitfield any credit at all. He knew nothing of the statute until it was brought to him by the confederate veterans group. Epic fail.
Not true. We had a large packet of documents from Clarke at the first work session, which included the state statute.
Fred When is city council going to ask Joe King to resign?
Just to be clear, I do respect how unlike the Board of Supervisors in my County you don’t want to waste taxpayer money on a stupid lawsuit. It probably is the case this would go there. I just don’t really like the politics of saying oh we can’t do anything because of a law when the statute in question isn’t as cut and dried as billed.
Sometimes you have to look around the room and count the votes.
I understand, and I respect the way you’re putting things.
Even if Mr. Whitfield didn’t know the statute existed when this came up, his job is not to memorize the Virginia Code. It frustrates me not to know what his specific advice is because it would be interesting, but I don’t think I could take issue with the work he or Mr. Spencer do for the City. I think there have been only a few times I have crossed paths with either of them in court, but I have always seen very solid work from them on those few occasions.
Mr. Whitfield had the state statute in front of us before anyone, anyone mentioned it. This is more complicated than many think…words mean things…and lawyers on both sides of any issue know that.
Oh, I certainly agree. I’m interested in why the issue didn’t end up getting litigated in Richmond.
Wouldn’t that be the next step?
Nicole, I would tend to think so, but it has been quite a while since the VMFA in Richmond removed their monument flags with no lawsuit as of yet.
City council does not have the money to go to court over an issue that they are sure to lose. Had this gone to court it would not have been tried in Richmond, but in Danville. Now whatever the result may have been, there would have been an appeal by the losing side. Danville is just about broke. We cannot afford to be throwing away this kind of money. If you had seen the rest of that meeting, you would have noticed the fact that the council spent $2 million that they carelessly gave away to WebParts and GOK. That was done without comment. Think about it, $2,000,000 taxpayers money. There will be more money owed the Tobacco Commission soon as well. Taxpayers money. Millions of dollars more. Nobody said a word either. They sure don’t have the money to take on losing cases in court.
Buck to be clear I was talking about a similar issue that predates this one involving the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts in Richmond. They took down two monument flags with similar threats, and no lawsuit has resulted.
Joe King can’t help it, when he filled out his job application it read “Last Name First, First Name Last” and he’s believed it ever since…
You must be JoeKing
Why is it ok with you and your followers for everybody else in the United States to protest whatever they don’t like, but then not approve of Confederate Americans who are only peaceably doing the same thing. Why do you think everybody else can stand up for their cause and they are heroic, but the Confederate Americans are bad, stupid and somehow disgraceful people when they are making a big effort to save their culture and heritage from genocide? You infer what they do is racist? I think you are unfair and I think you discriminate so I believe you are racist. Can you explain your reasons for your articles you write against Confederate Americans who stand up for their culture, their heritage, and their ancestry.
It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.
As for “genocide”, I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Hum, ok how do you want them to say it that you could approve of?
Genocide fits in my opinion, I believe Sherman was the one who said kill them all, and there are those
still trying to do just that (metaphorically).
gen-o-cide [jen-uh-sahyd] Spell Syllables
Examples Word Origin
noun
1. the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
ROFL @ “Confederate Americans”
really?… smh
The South LOST and so did it’s ideals! get over it!
Which coupncilman made the stupid comment that the flag should be removed if even one person found it to be offensive? I heard it was Vogler and then someone else thought it was the Mayor. Got any facts?
No councilman said that as far as I know. Larry Campbell was the only one to come out in favor of the flag’s removal, but he did so calmly and logically.
It wasn’t a councilman it was someone speaking from the audience.
No Jon, it certainly was not me. It was Missy Gould who said it. She’s the wife of School Board member Steven Gould.
Thanks Mr. Vogler. I do question why you bring Stephen Gould into it, blatantly connecting him to the dumb comment by his wife. Do you think he shares that view? Let’s hope not.
Jon, I only mentioned it for context since it was originally stated (in your comment) that an elected official on City Council made the remark. The remark was made by the wife of an elected official, although still not City Council (she does serve on the Tobacco Commission). Whether he shares that view or not, I don’t know. That would be for him to answer.
What matters more than who this person is married to is Mr. Vogler’s claim that she is on the Tobacco Commission????? If this Mrs. Gould takes the goofball thinking she has displayed to the Tobacco Commission, what will that do to our prospects for dealing with them advantageously? Do you know why she is on the Tobacco Commission? I hope she did not replace Ruff or Marshall.
She replaced VIR’s Connie Nyholm who was term-limited.
Please note that council members must still vote on the resolution at the next meeting. I am giving odds that the vote will not be 9 to 0 in favor of the resolution.
Thank you, SCC. Last question: what qualifications does Mrs. Gould bring to the Tobacco Commission? Nyholm, Hawkins, Ruff, Marshall, Merricks all made sense.
I’m guessing that it was her Southside residency combined with knowledge of how Richmond works. It didn’t hurt that she’s a friend of the current administration.
You are being very petty in linking Stephen Gould to his wife’s behavior. I see him as a promising young Danvillian who could bring fresh leadership to the pitiful Democratic Party in our city. He is making a difference on the school board. He is well qualified to run for city council. He had nothing to do with his wife’s unfortunate statements, so far as i know. (Has anyone asked him what he thinks?) Commenters need to think twice before smearing a good man with his wife’s unnecessary statements on public issues.
Considering the original commenter on here insinuated it was Vogler (an elected official) who made that dumb remark (it wasn’t ) , I don’t think it was inappropriate to point out who did make that poor statement. I also didn’t see anyone on here suggest that Steven Gould agrees with his wife that if something offends just one person, you should get rid of it. Maybe he does but I don’t think anyone has asked him yet. Maybe that’s something SSC can do.
But let’s be honest, Missy Gould is not just some elected official’s wife. She’s a public official herself. She’s been a Democrat operative, along with her husband, for several years. She currently serves on the Tobacco Commission. What she says and believes matters.
Disagree. I don’t give a rat’s ass about any Tobacco Commission member’s political leanings. I expect those members to use business acumen to wisely choose the best grants. Considering most Tobacco Commission votes are unanimous, echoing their staff’s recommendations, I would hope that political partisanship would never come into play.
As for Missy Gould’s remarks, I’m betting that her head exploded at some of the ridiculous speakers and she spoke on impulse. Hell, I did that on the Jeff Smith rezoning item.
So if she really is of any importance in our community, it is good that she has clearly defined herself in terms of her intelligence as well as her commonsense. In any case, it is wrong to judge Stephen Gould by his wife’s ignorant comments.
Who judged him? All I saw on here was people pointing out who made the comment and the fact that she’s married to Steven Gould, who sits on the School Board. No one said that he agrees with what she said. I would hope he doesn’t but again, we don’t know because no one has asked him. I really don’t buy that this was a remark made on “impulse” because of the speakers before her. Listen to other comments she’s made over time or read some of her public Facebook posts. She believes what she said. In fact, she hasn’t even attempted to walk it back. She’s certainly entitled to her beliefs and she made hers well known.
We can agree on that! It’s a real shame that we have people like her getting their noses up in everybody’s business. One of problems is that our intelligent people go elsewhere and we’re left with folks like this who would be total jokes in more upscale communities. There are exceptions of course but not in this case.
[…] “Welp. We can’t do anything” and punted the football WAAAAAAY down the field. We published a Winners & Losers article to recap the battle. Then we published another one because God knows you can never have enough Confederate flag stuff, […]