In our last article, we showed you what the Danville Utilities Steering committee came up with regarding strengths and weaknesses of the business. Now, we’ll finish up this meeting by looking at their boards of Opportunities and Threats.
By the way, if you were looking for other local media coverage of this week’s meeting… forget it. No other source covered it (except for Mark Aron and River City TV, but that’s the government channel). Heh. Let’s get to work.
If you haven’t noticed, they like to use Big Boards too. Let’s start with the steering committee’s four boards of Opportunities.
Finally, we’ll look at the committee’s two boards of Threats to the business.
And there you go. These two articles recap what happened at the last meeting.
We’ve got more coming up on SouthsideCentral!
Mercy sakes…the Utilities folks are actually considering using the Dan River for Hydroelectric power? Really? What a difference in electric rates, if this idea were developed–every significant fall in elevation another dam can be built, using the very same water. Think about that, folks…and we are letting the Dan flow by, as though it were not there.
Elevation change in the Dan River from the base of the dam at Park Ave to the eastern end of the city limits is 13 feet. This will not produce enough power to make a difference. Forget hydroelectric power, it will never be economical.
That is solved by simply building a dam, creating the fall needed…hydro-electric power is almost free, Brother G., and we are letting enough power to go by untapped to make a tremendous difference in our electric bills.
It is not hard..it is not impossible…it has been done, for one hundred years. Let’s take the bull by the horns, and get it done!
Blueridge
Why don’t you run this by the EPA, the Corp of Engineers and all the other Federal and State agencies, then run some costs estimates on building a dam, power plant, etc. then let us know how feasible this idea might be? Not to mention paying for the displacement of property owners (both residential and business) which will occur when you dam up the river.
Well, Nicole…should we NOT hook up to free water power, because it would mean startup costs? There were startup costs for every utility company…a century ago, did not someone fund the dams we have, and the old power plant, and Dan River Mills WITH canals…and buildings and looms…the alternative is to wring our hands, do nothing, and let the free water power slide on downriver. Of course there would be costs, but we then would not have to go find a river far, far away–WE HAVE ONE. Thanks…
Blueridge
You keep using the term “free” water power. My point is that it is not going to be free and unlike years ago the laws and licensing regarding building a dam that would supply enough power to make it feasible would be prohibitive and the costs to build such a project would be enormous. Where do you propose to get the money to 1. Do a feasibility study? 2. Pay fees for licensing? 3. Fight other communities on the river that would not be in favor of a dam? 4. Buy property from current landowners? 5. Build the actual power plant? And I am fairly sure that the environmental groups are ready and willing to go to court and hold up any type of project like this for years, and years, and years.
And, just so you know, the dam doesn’t create the fall, the fall is the change in elevation from one point on the river to another.
Boulder Dam and Smith Mt. Dam and the power grid all the way down to the wire connected to your house was an initial investment.
Those mammoth windmills cost a bit also.
Shall we sit by and watch alternatives for producing energy being used successfully around the world because of inherited primitive ideologies?
Our great great grandchildren will be here soon.
I hope they won’t be digging in coal mines.
Since you have mentioned Smith Mountain Dam and Boulder Dam (Hoover Dam) here is some information on the height and cost of the two dams. Smith Mountain – 235 feet high – built 1960 -1963 – cost $103 million. Boulder Dam – 726 feet high – built 1931 – 1936 – cost $39 million. If the city went to the VA-NC line below Angler’s Park and build a dam the top of the dam could only be as high as the lowest point of the dam at Robertson Bridge (13 feet). A 13 foot dam on the Dan River is not cost effective. A dam on the eastern end of the Dan would flood the waste water treatment plant, Angler’s park and flood several areas along the river. Hydro power is not and never will be an option.
I’m wondering what the Army Corps of Engineers would require to build a new dam today? It took over a year to get approval to destroy a 2 foot one on RIFA property.
While I love being lectured about geography by Nicole, I agree wholeheartedly with Scott…if not now, when?
Blueridge
I suppose this meeting and the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats are not in any way related to Danville Utilities Collections. Am I correct? Is the Collections department owned by a seperate entitiy?
Correct. Central Collections is a separate department.
With all the comments above regarding dams on the Dan River, did I miss something? Is there any reference to building a dam on the Dan River in the Steering Committee’s bullet points of Opportunities and Threats?
Look..
yes…reread the notes above, about generating power, hiring a consultant, and alternate sources like solar and hydro power.
You know, if one thinks about the MANY little mills in Pittyslvania County, you will find a dam and a mill pond. If they figured that out in the 1800’s, surely we could do better, today.
In my humble opinion….
Blueridge
Sorry…I have read it. I guess my question in particular, was there link to any of those notes to the Dan River specifically?
I have a question for Blueridge and Scott. Where would you build a dam on the Dan River to provide this ‘free” power?
While there may be suitable areas for building a dam somewhere on the Dan River, I don’t believe that is a reasonable suggestion and no dam provides “free power”.
Well, look at it this way…if Pittsylvania County could harness water power to the tune of more than 200 grist mills in the 1800’s, and if Dan River Mills could see their way clear to build canals and support dams–perhaps the way to approach this is in two or three stages: 1., ask some INDEPENDENT engineers how they would do it, and write up an action plan. Probably Scott and certainly myself are not engineers, but we are aware of history…and sooner or later, Danville residents will discover that, 2. ALL power plants need energy sources to produce power. If we can no longer burn coal to make it, and we do not have nuclear plants nearby, then we might turn to natural river flow to help provide it. In that sense, it is free–we do not need to dig the coal, or build a river–it exists. It will continue to flow by, untapped, even while the naysayers act like it cannot be used for power. Of course it can.
[continued]
[continued] 3. The big new dams in China, the Aswan Dam in Egypt, and the Boulder Dam in the USA, are all man made, using existing water flow. Yes, they had to buy surrounding land, and yes, they had to build the dam–which might be done partly with state and federal funding. Surely, on a smaller scale, we could do something similar on the Dan. I do not know about you folks, but our electric bill is enormous, every month, and increasing. At some point, our citizens are going to be demanding some action, and will not want to hear the word, ”Can’t”. Bumblebees can’t fly, either–but they do, quite well.
In my humble opinion.
Blueridge
Blueridge, I am a Mechanical Engineer and have knowledge of the calculations for hydroelectric power. I also have talked to a Civil Engineer who has great knowledge of the Dan River flowing through Danville. There is no place on the Dan in the city that a dam can be constructed for hydroelectric power. In order to produce power you need a large flow and sufficient fall in the river. You also need an area where the river is narrow enough to build a dam. Forget hydroelectricity from the Dan River in Danville. The current three dams inside the city limits are at Schoolfield (currently producing power), Union Street which was used by Dan River Mills to channel water into the White Mill for production purposes (no power production) and the dam below the White Mill. The latter of the two do not have the “fall” required to product power.
Continuation: Grist mills used water power to turn the stones. There was never any production of electricity in a grist mill, not enough water power to turn a turbine to product electricity. In today’s world there are small hydroelectric systems that would product power from a grist mill pond, enough for one household. The pay-back on such a system is so high and the power production so low that they are not economical. As you pointed out all power plants need an energy source. I could write a paper on the pros and cons of each type of system. The best option is solar, small solar systems for each household. If we all had a small solar system the peak loads from the city power system would be drastically cut. Again the cost for most households would be a problem.
I thank you for your thoughtful reply, Mr. Garrison, and I am enthusiastic about the Sun…more ”free” power, in one sense of speaking. However, I saw a huge electric plant in Israel in 1980 that was harvesting electricity from simple wave action–and the Med was not roiling, but gentle. In fact, I watched a man wading, with a cast net, in it. If such wave can be harvested, cannot the flow of a river as substantial as the Dan provide power? Water, when forced into a narrow channel develops tremendous power, I have been told. I would love to see a paper you might write on the pros for the hydroelectric power…I’ll bet it would be good.
Sincerely,
Blueridge
The plant in Israel may be a combination of wave and tidal action. For areas on the coast this type plant can produce electricity at a low cost. You are correct that water when forced into a narrow channel can develop tremendous power. That is the reason that dams are built, to channel the flow and drive a turbine. The water is forced to one outside edge of the turbine causing it to spin and product the electrical current. You cannot cause a turbine to spin if the flow is equal on both outside edges of the turbine. For that reason you cannot place a turbine into the flowing river, you have to have a dam to channel the flow to the outside edge. Wave/tidal plants work on the up and down cycle of the water surface.
Thank you for that insight…we need your engineer noggin to look into this, and see what can be done, with our river–and–solar!
Blueridge
Fred Shanks, you are on the Steering Committee. This seems to be a frank discussion regarding generating power and, based on your comments above, you seem a bit surprised by it. Isn’t it great that people are thinking about the issue and how we can possibly do something to help ease the problem? Certainly some things we cannot do but we should consider and discuss all possibilities. The Register & Bee opinion in paper Sunday (March 29) is an interesting take on the issue of DP&L. Citizens becoming involved and discussing issues it a great thing! I enjoyed reading the comments.
Sheila, great comment. Where does the “Steering Committee” want to steer us, but to higher utility prices? I get the faint impression that they might like us to go away, while they hear, see, and say nothing.
Just my 2 cents…
Blueridge